Hacking out in bitless

Hey poghag what you don't know about any of us - I was riding, training and teaching others for forty years before I discovered what was wrong with my riding and why horses were not at their best with me - so I'm as 'new to riding' as anyone. We're trying to convey stuff that isn't in any book and with very few instructors, you don't come across AT ALL as a novice but when you get really into bitless you start to question everything else and you learn a whole new way to ride - or you give it up and go back to a bit. We're trying to explain a concept, never easy in words, that isn't generally recognised in horse riding. Cyndi 'got it' (I think!) after a huge correspondence - that's why I asked if anyone could help directly, a sight is worth a thousand words. No - one is trying to diss what you know, only asking you to question it, stick with us!!!

Yeah didn't add that. I never meant that you specifically grabbed the horses face that is just something I find very common with repeat bolters and spookers. 90% of the time it is the horses fear of having his face/mouth tugged on. The other can be anything. Seat, saddle pain when a horse does anything more than a canter, physical problems that you can't see etc.
I never intended to say that you were making your horse spook but with the number of confirmed bolters and spookers I have worked with these are some of the conclusions I have come to. But like any horse and any rider there is no one size fits all remedy.

Aaarrrghghgh! Sorry Sydney and FlorayG; I knew I was too hasty in posting my sulky little "but I DO know how to ride my horse" reply - no I don't, not without a bit and of course I was questioning my riding with a bit before that, and although I've worked on various yards over various years, he is my first horse as an adult (and the first horse I've explored "natural" horsemanship with) and everything was suddenly very different (I had partnered him for 2 years before buying him and I was surprised at the changes in attitude I underwent as soon as I felt fully responsible for him; hence learning how to do at least the beginnings of groundwork, shoeless and bitless within the first year and no eventing since his buy-day and probably not again for a very long time). I'm totally and utterly at the beginning of my path and I have so many many questions. I truly want to follow this path (a very very distant goal being bridleless riding) - but I'm going to need much help (and I'd always considered myself a tiny bit competent before this!) and this forum is my main source for it.

So thank you everyone for helping me, I will try to find Cyndi's story, is it on this forum somewhere? And I think Bohohorse might be within range if we could maybe stay the night. In the meantime I'm pretty much reading reading reading as that's all I have to go on.

It's tough! Having jumped on and had a great time for 30 years (and I did shedloads of bareback, reinless and stirrupless as a kid, and still a fair old bit now, so I haven't got an atrocious seat or a reliance on contact, but it's bloomin' hard feeling like a total beginner again not knowing if what I do is OK - and I'm sorry if I get oversensitive! I'm trying so hard to learn but can't learn fast enough!!)

Have to go to work now!

Thanks for helping me guys. Sorry for my childish strop! and big respect to all of you.

Hi Pohag.

My long journey in this gentle horsemanship technique is far from over, but there are bits and pieces of it throughout this forum The most recent is in the "what saddle do you use" topic (in the "saddles and other equipment" discussion), where I have been getting loads of help in how to stay in the saddle while trotting.

You mentioned that you feel like a total beginner again. I am a beginner! I've never had formal riding lessons, so this is all totally new to me...and exciting

I didn't ride as much as you did as a child, but I rode whenever I could, whenever we were visiting someone with horses. Fanny is my very first horse, and I just turned 40 in February. Like you, I am trying to do everything as natural as possible, so good advice is hard to find close by. However, I have found a great riding instructor, and the people in this forum have been excellent and patient with me while I learn.

I totally understand how your attitude changed when you purchased your horse! Someone once said that maybe I should've leased a horse before I bought one, but I know that I would have felt "restricted" by doing that. Having my own horse allows me to train her any way I want, without getting criticism or a slap on the wrist from the owner if I'm not doing the things the way they want it done.

Just a warning about my posts...they tend to be very long! I try to keep them short, but I just can't help it

Thanks Cyndi. I shall explore the forum for your other posts.

hi poghag things couldn't be more different for me. My lovely little pony was no trouble in his bit and is the same bitless and it wouldn't enter his head to bolt, too much effort required for that. When I bought a bitless bridle i had no worries about controling him. (I'd made a bitless for my old pony and it had worked really well so I was happy to buy a proper one for my new pony)

The only thing I have noticed is that it is not so easy for me to 'keep him together' when schooling as it was in a bit. He tends to go more on the forehand. I think that transferring to bitless does reveal weaknesses in the rider's position that could be covered up when using a bit. I have had my instructress help me and I am beginning to get the results bitless that I did when I used the bit. The only difference is that I ache more and have to concentrate more on my riding.

I am really impressed by your courage and deterrmination to go bitless with the problems presented by your horse. I hope you come to an understanding that works for both of you and think that your horse is blessed by an owner who thinks so much about doing the right thing. Good luck on your journey. look forward to hearing how things go for you.

I think that transferring to bitless does reveal weaknesses in the rider's position that could be covered up when using a bit.

A wile ago Zoe had me answer a question from a lady who bought a nurtural bridle. She could get her horse "on the bit" with a bit but failed when she tried with the bitless. The difference here is with a bit you can force a horses head onto the vertical (or on the bit ) but with a bitless a horse can lean because it does not force him with pain. You need to learn how to engage your horses hind end and achive proper collection, not just force him to bend at the poll.

It takes a lot more practice but very achievable. If you know how to properly collect your horse but hes having problems (a lot of ottb's do) get a chiropractor out.

Poghag (where did that name come from?) you're on your way. You can admit you have discovered the bit was actually doing all the things you thought you were doing - because you can't do them bitless yet.
I think Cyndi's 'story' is mostly on our Yahoo chat page - in a nutshell, she'd had a LOT of people tell her to 'get control' and 'be master' of poor Fanny, and we all told her to let go control and let the horse be the friend and partner she really wanted. Is that so Cyndi? And as that was what she wanted all along, it works for her!
But it's really hard to fly in the face of received wisdom, especially when all your friends still do it the 'other' way. I don't ride out with most of my friends now because I can now see the distress in their horses that they refuse to see when they are hauling on the reins. And they all think . well. it's OK for her isn't it, her horse is so quiet anyway, MY horse would never behave as quiet as that in a string halter...

Always have extra bitless bridles around. A lot of people are interested if you show them and have one avail to try
I ride and train a lot of horses young and old. I would say out of all of them ONE is placid. I like hotter horses. Like Indigo. Everyone sees her on the ground and shes as sweet as pie. Ride her and the game is on. She wants to run and act silly and get rid of that energy she has, sometimes in a more explosive way than I wish but I love her anyway.
I can ride Indigo in any bridle or halter because of the way she is trained, not the equipment. I choose the bitless bridle I have because it gives me precise cues that I am not capable of teaching her at this point in my riding career (bridleless anyone?). Early last summer I went for a 4 hour bareback ride through ditches, galloping through fields etc in a really thick padded stable halter. Nothing harsh or controlling about that. I just happened to forget my bridle at home and wanted to ride.
She knows the word "woah" to stop plus rein and seat cues. She knows "easy" and seat cues as a means of slowing down and gee and haw for left and right as well as seat and leg cues. They are really not hard to teach a horse voice commands but a lot of riders do not use them. I've become accustomed to them because I drive. Easy and woah are my two favorite They can go a long way when using a bitless bridle.
The most important thing a carriage horse can learn is the word WOAH with no rein cues to enforce it. I think that should be true for riding horses. You never know when you are going to have to use it.

Yesterday it was really really windy and as I tacked up I did have a moment when I wondered if I should put the bit in for safety. But you have to have the courage of your convictions so off we went bitless, dancing down the lane on 'windy legs' Yes, a vanner can piaffe, as I found out when we encountered a huge streamer of haylage wrapper flapping off a barbed wire fence, but he seemed more confident in his bitless and he didn't pull me as he used to in is bit.

Don't they just put those Warmbloods to shame when they piaffe? Now THERE'S power.
He trusts you. Because you trust him now. I used to worry about riding in windy weather (in fact it used to terrify me), now all I worry about is flying branches.