Hacking out in bitless

I seem to remember there are legal implications... no third party insurance if something happens and you have no bit. As someone who does a lot of hacking, with a horse who has been known to utterly take off, bitted or not, do I need to be wearing a bridle on over the bitless to cover me if we have an "incident" with a bystander or such?

(I know this makes me sound like a pretty poor horsewoman - I'm doing loads of slow work in the school so that horsey listens to ME, not a bit - so we're getting there, we're just not there yet!).

Also fun rides and such - do I need to bit-up over the top for those? He gets very high-energy in those situations... any suggestions?

PS I am somebody who was greatly cheered to hear that an ex-racer who was unstoppable in everything, was totally controllable in a cross-under. Hired a cross-under for my boy, a Nurtural, spent ages making sure I followed instructions on fitting to a tee, longlined and schooled in it, all seemed dandy, but on our first hack got very much run away with (my fault, I shouldn't have let him gallop in the first place, looking back, but thought I might as well put it to the test; I tried to turn, rather than stop, and he just flattened, set his neck and accelerated).

Is the answer to stick to slow work and just gradually over time allow him to pick up with the speed work, always bringing him back down again before he decides to take control?

All hints and tips very welcome - I'm new to bitless.

Are you in Canada?

I am very lucky to have talked to my insurance and they had no problem once I explained with my bitless. Make sure you call your insurance company. 95% of what I do is out on the open trail. I got a round pen for fenced in riding or I trailer someplace. No fun for me to run around in circles in an arena lol!

As long as your horse has a bit on, not even in his mouth I believe it's considered to be bitted. Maybe Zoe can explain more. When I was talking to her husband Gerry at the royal he said something about it to me.

Hi PH,

Glad you brought this up - might have to make it a sticky!

There is NO law in the UK saying that you have to be bitted on the roads and don't let anyone tell you that there is (ask them to provide a link to the Act that says it..)

The Highway Code says that you should have a 'bridle and saddle' but a bit is not specified. Even this is only in their guidelines. However, this is what insurance companies will use as a guide if there is any issue about contributory negligence so it is always wise (IMHO) to be correctly kitted out on the roads. I ride in a leather bitless bridle, a saddle, hat, reflective gear etc.

Insurance companies - there is an urban myth that does the rounds every now and again saying that you are not insured if you are bitless. All the decent insurance companies are absolutely fine with bitless - I rang NFU to ask them direct and they thought it was funny that I even had to ask (the advisor on the phone said 'if people think that you need a bit to be safe then then they just don't understand how horses work... big kisses to that man ). If you want to be absolutely sure, do ring your insurers. I have heard that one of the cheap crap companies (I don't know, but I suspect it may be the one with 'E' in the title) is insisting that horses are bitted all the time even when led... but then they are a notoriously cr*p company who are always looking for excuses not to pay out!

It's worth mentioning that some of my Parelli friends tell me that some UK insurers make a definition between 'training aids' and bridles so they don't like people riding in halters on the road. One of those little quirks, easy enough to get a cheap webbing or beta bitless bridle to ride out in on the roads to be on the safe side.

So don't worry. Bitless hack away!

Training wise - that merits a post on its own - I'll have to come back later!

It makes my blood boil, this 'have to be bitted to be safe' rubbish. If I ever come to court over it I will fight it to the death. I have more 'control' bareback with a halter and a second horse in the other hand than has anyone else I know with a horse near where I live, with all their gear- today two women on horses that must have taken half an hour just to tack up couldn't get past us in a gateway and then were concerned that if they left me I wouldn't be able to close the gate!
Actually Poghag your problem may come, if there is an accident, from the fact that you know your horse takes off out of control bitted or not - the law will see that as more like contributory negligence than not having a bit. More training is what you need, but then you know that

My understanding of UK insurance policies is the same as Bohohorse - bitless is usually fine, however halters/headcollars on public roads/tracks may not be. Always best to phone your insurance co. to ask tho.

FlorayG wrote: More training is what you need, but then you know that

Please what does anyone suggest? Responding to body cues to halt in the school seems a world away from stopping a galloping horse when he's flat out.

We've always done a considerable bit of speed work in the past, with no concerns... and he used to steer wherever I looked, and whoa when I merely sat up... he just totally and utterly bolted in the bitless.

So please, what more training can I do??? Any suggestions gratefully received.

Bolting is the most dangerous thing a horse can do in my opinion. Running blindly. Theres a difference between a bolt and a spook and run for a bit though.

I've stopped bolters before with this method. I do not suggest it for the faint of heart.
This one mare I rode used to bolt regularly. She got me pretty hurt once. Tore my rotator cuff in my left shoulder and it's never been the same since.
You have to have a lot of open space for this. I waited until she bolted, which she did about 5-10 minutes into our ride when I asked for the canter and I took my reins (split reins with the popper on the end) and started going over and under and making her run faster and faster and faster around this twenty acre field. Every time she tried to slow down I would over and under with my reins again. About the fifth time around the field she was begging to stop but I kept her going another two times. Finally when I said woah she did just that. Stopped and panted and our ride was done for that day. Next time I rode her she tried it again and I did the exact same thing but for not as long. She hasn't bolted since and that was over 5 years ago I did that. Her only vice.

Did it a couple months ago with a carriage horse that bolted with me. Next time I drove him I made him run and run and run around the track and he has been good as gold since though I would never trust him. That is just his personality though.
Like I said, not for the faint of heart.

thats interesting Sydney because I would be tempted to use that method too.... however I have been fortunate so far and only had one grumpy pony bolt on me and a very tall hedge and a lot of head turning stopped him.

Thanks Sydney. He's not a regular bolter - has only done it 3 times with me over the last couple of years. The first time he was being chased by an alsatian (I couldn't steer and he was heading for a main road and I confess I baled out), the second time a swan took off aside of him when hacking along a canal path and flew about 6 feet from his head throughout his gallop - amazingly he stopped then before wiping out half a dozen cyclists (but I'm not sure he would have done without wearing a combination Myler I let him run his fear off then to be honest, pulled on the reins with all my might... I'm sorry, but I think he'd have caused a major accident if I'd had the bitless in then), then this most recent time when he realised he could set his neck against me and give me no steering in the bitless. Only the last was a "naughty" run rather than a bolt in fear, but his speed and acceleration were the same.

I'm not averse at all to trying your tactic, but our only galloping track is a huge circular path around the edge of some marshes, and this was the circular path I was trying to steer him around when he took off in the bitless. I quite simply could not steer him around the circle - he dived for the little exit path and nearly came down in the process. Plus - I'm on last warnings out on the marshes (not allowed to "school", not allowed to gallop, and I occasionally let myself sneak a little of both in... once I've checked for rangers).

Very interesting tactic, not sure I can work it in this situation. Thank you Sydney - I will file that one my mind for future reference.

Any other suggestions folks? How to school a horse so he might listen once he's decided not to tune in when in gallop?

I've just posted on your other thread so I'll not add to this one too much for now as it will end up a duplication! Suffice it to say, for me, safety involves three things:
Training - the most important
Equipment - common sense things like a hat, high vis etc
Awareness - and this means, knowing whats around you, being able to anticipate problems and knowing when to not start that particular battle on that particular day.

To be honest, all you can do on a bolting horse is damage limitation. Your mission is to get right to grassroots and eliminate the things that are triggering the bolting i.e. the overreactions to fear and the lack off attentiveness to your aids. I'd do ALL that you can to stop that bolt ever happening as every time he does it it's becoming more habitual to him - thankfully it's not been that often but it's been often enough for him to believe that it's a valid option for him.

If what you say is true and your horse is spooking at something and then running off you have a spooking problem, not a bolting problem. Treat the cause, not the symptoms.

I would try and address the spooking problem and I bet you the bolting will disappear. John Lyons has a lot of good "spook in place" exercises that teach a horse not to run. I suggest checking his perfect horse site for the article.

Chances are, especially with repeat spookers they are scared of the riders reaction and not the scary object. So say for instance your horse spooks at a plastic bag on the trail but hes fine with them when you are schooling hes not saying "Horse eating demon bag!" hes probably thinking "rider grabbing my face when she/he sees a bag".

With Indigo I find if I pick up my reins and have contact with her face out on the farm she spooks. She absolutely hates riders that are on her face all the time. She crow hops, spooks and acts really stupid. If I ride on the buckle I get small spooks and maybe a jump ahead but nothing more than that. Try not to be so quick in reacting and trying to stop your horse next time. Let him/her have a few strides before you grab both reins. It may make the difference.

Yep I would agree with Sydney there - your horse is not bolting, he's running away from your reaction to his spook. The feedback you get from that is amazing and you don't realise you are causing it.

Interesting. I'm really taking your advice on board and thank you for it.

But I have to admit that your posts make me feel as if I've somehow come across as new to riding, not new to bitless.

I've sat plenty of his spooks with neither reins, nor stirrups at times. I've never felt any need to "grab" the reins. I'm not an anxious rider, not by any stretch of the imagination, and I regret it if I have come across as someone who "grabs at their horse's face" at the prospect of a spook, because that would be far from the truth. When he took off chased by the dog, and the swan, I let him run until I felt it was prudent to take a feel. Being run away with really does not worry me whatsoever, I just feel concern for him; I wouldn't try to grab at him.

When he ran off with the bitless we were already comfortably at a pretty fast pace, so this was no reaction to me, I believe.

We have done, and continue to do, a good amount of spook-busting so hopefully that will help. We spend a huge amount of quality, fun, bonding time together and I'm doing my horse an injustice if I've ever come across as a nervous rider with a frightened horse.

Thank you very much for your advice. Sorry if I've been a little over-sensitive flower!

Lol... I went to a Western show last week and took Z in for a individual show class. He decided to give me a load of 'leave a message... I'll get back to you' attitude. We stumbled through it and came out. The organiser sad to me kindly: 'Oh you must come to one of our clinics and learn what all these things like moving the shoulders really means'. I had to laugh... all she had to go on was what she'd seen so she didn't MEAN to be patronising... but it was annoying at the time!

But then following my own advice, if he was happy to ignore me then, then we probably needed more work on it at home... so we've been doing more of that! ( I still ain't going to the clinic though )

Actually Sydney's post made me think: when I see something 'scary' ahead, do I focus on it...? I think I do. And the horse knows what we are really feeling, even if we are trying to mask it. Note to self...

If I see something scary, and Indigo or any other horse I am riding sees it too I look at it. The length I focus on it depends on the horses initial reaction to it. For instance riding Indigo down the road shes got this thing for the neighbor kid on the dirt bike. She could care less any other time. She sees him in the distance in the field. She starts staring and tensing up. I glance at it, look real long and hard for about 10 seconds (that is long because she was deciding how to react which would have been a crowhop like usual) then I look away and keep on going. It took her attention off of him for a bit until she had to take another double take but she didn't stop that time.
Think of it like the lead mare in a herd. A yearling sees something off in the distance that really isn't that significant. His eyes are wide and hes staring and snorting at it. The lead mare spots him and joins him to see whats wrong. She sees what hes snorting at and doesn't think it's scary(lets say it's a man walking a dog in the distance, shes seen it a bunch of times before) so she walks away and by doing so says theres no threat. Chances are the yearling would do the same too.
So the answer to that one is don't focus on something more than your horse gages it to be. If hes a little leery of plastic bags and theres one on the ground glance at it only a little shorter than your horse would and then completely put it out of your mind. If it's a deer and your horse is terrified of them look good and long and hard and then ask your horse to keep going. If he has to stop again look at it again and then ask him to keep going. The lead mare would do the same.
I spend a lot of time watching the horses lol!