What type of saddle do you use!

EGAD!!! I replied to you, Sydney, then lost it before I sent it!!! I'll try again...

First of all, thanks SO much for the advice!

Yes, I have stirrup hobbles. It felt like the buckles were digging into me, but that's not possible, so I will make sure I check it very well next time, because my right leg was fine.

Will also check the length of the stirrup according to your suggestion. The stirrups were as short as they could go, so they had to punch a new hole for me at lessons (thus my comment about 'wasting' time - but I am very grateful they did it for me). They punched an extra hole, so if I need to shorten them more, it's possible.

Slouched shoulders and popping up heels - EXACTLY!! Especially the popping up heels...and truthfully, I have to really concentrate on sitting straighter and not slouching. I feel like my foot is entirely airborne when I go up during the trot. When I come down, my foot is either too far back (only my toes are on the stirrup) or else too far back (at one point, the stirrup was right against the heel of my boot). How does a person sit low during a trot? I am one of those people who can't sit and make myself sink to the bottom of the shallow end of a swimming pool, while my puny kids could! I flip and float up! During the trot, I feel like an out of control rag doll up there, flopping around, and I pray that I don't fall off.

So I should bend my elbows more? Have my hands belly button height? That feels comfy for me even while I'm sitting here.

The ice cream cone analogy is perfect!!! Just sitting in the chair right now, I feel so much more balanced with my elbows bent, slightly tucked into my body, and my hands in that ice cream cone position! I think this might be a major breakthrough!!! It feels like it brings my center of gravity to a more defined point. Jason said how we hold onto the reins doesn't matter to him, so I'm going to give this a try. It seems like more of an English hand position than a Western one, but if it works, you can bet I'll keep doing it.

I'm not sure about the seat bones thing. I would rather sit more on my back pockets than my seat bones. With our Parelli instructor we did an exercise where we took turns being a horse and had someone 'sit' on our back (not full weight, obviously, but enough to feel a difference). There is a huge difference in pressure when you sit on the seat bone than on the fleshy part of your bum, but it sure makes you have to open your pelvis up more to achieve a comfortable seat while maintaining that shoulder/hip/ankle line.

Another thing I'll do is make sure that the saddle is sitting high on the withers. That is suggested with the Barefoot saddles, since there is no tree to interfere with the shoulders. I'm wondering if I had the saddle too far back and it was leaning forward a bit, thus making me lean forward more than usual (like I need help in that department!). I did walk the horse around the arena with the saddle slightly loose, so that the saddle would fall into a natural position on its own.

Thanks again for your most valuable advice! I really appreciate this group!

Cyndi

Two things I would add - you're obviously a 'short-arse' like me, and we don't have the natural shape for riding . Look at the others in your class - I bet the one that sits nicest has the longest legs, so just resign yourself to having to work more on your short legs to get them to position correctly. Second, unless you're training for a group competition, the speed of progress of the rest of the class is irrelevant to you, don't grieve about being 'left behind'
When I was training with a classical trainer years ago, he used to say he was wasting his time, however hard I tried I would never be a good rider. He meant elegant, which to him was the same thing, and you need long legs to be elegant on a horse
oh, and this sometimes helps... think of the rising trot as DOWN (up) DOWN (up), not up, down, up, down etc.

And for trotting on the correct diagonals remember: rise and fall with the leg on the wall!

Something that helped a young girl that was bigger and short was doing a lot of transitions wile trotting. No I don't mean walk/trot/canter I mean standing in the stirrups for 4 paces, sitting for 4, posting for 4 and then two point for four. You can try it at a walk first. Doing two point at a walk definately builds those muscles.

Thanks ladies!

No, I'm not training for a group competition (thankfully!!), so I will try to remember to just go at my own pace.

Very interesting comment about the DOWN (up) versus UP (down). Makes sense.

I'm average height and weight - 5'4", 135 pounds. Short body, so longer in the legs...which you'd think would be an advantage. lol

The rise and fall with the leg on the wall is a good thing to remember! I will try to do both of you proud by doing my best to implement all your advice!! I should try those transitions too. I hope that others in my group are a bit slower in grooming and saddling their horses so that I can do some of this stuff in the arena before lessons start

Well, compare the time taken to put on a bridle, bit, fasten a noseband, add a martingale - all on a horse that objects - and the time it takes to fasten a halter, especially if it's the halter you caught the horse with in the first place! I suspect you have 15 minutes more than they do!

Interesting to read the latest updates on this thread

Cyndi (putting my Pilates instructor head on now) you will continue to struggle with the shoulder/hip/heel alignment if you are sitting on your pockets. Sitting that way tilts the top of your pelvis backwards, flattening the natural curve in the lumbar spine and you will not be able to maintain a neutral (correct) spine. To compensate, you will have to slump your shoulders forwards. Chances are, your feet will also creep forward too. For posting/rising, the shoulders should be marginally in front of the vertical (leaning forward almost imperceptibly) while the spine remains in neutral, with your hips moving slightly forward rather than up. Trying to go straight up and down will result in a loss of balance as, by the time you come down, the horse has moved forwards and you are left behind!

Sitting on your sit bones needn't be painful for the horse if he is correctly saddled/padded. In fact, if you get a REALLY good instructor to correct your sitting posture, you will notice the exact point that you get it right because the horse FLIES! You can feel him or her saying 'Thank you! You aren't getting in my way now..!'

Let me know if the bit about posture doesn't make sense and I will try and find some pictures.

I totally get what you are saying about the posture! I thought it was just me, struggling to get that position right, when in reality, it may not even be possible. What a relief! I still need to work on my posture, but I will take things in small steps.

Your description of me rising and then getting left behind because the horse has moved on, is perfect! I'm trying to think back to when I trotted on a horse and felt good and secure, and in those cases, I was much more relaxed and moved my hips slightly forward when I rose (moved with the horse, not against it). Some of this has been natural for me, yet in my mind I kept thinking that I don't know anything (because I've never had lessons before), so I've been trying too hard to do what I think the instructor is looking for. He may not see the little things I'm doing or not doing, so it'd be hard for him to correct me. Perhaps I'll try what feels most natural and see what happens. Can't be any worse than how I felt up there last week.

Thanks much!!
Cyndi

Cyndi, it is possible to get this without lessons. I've only had a handful of lessons where the instructor sat there and nitpicked at things like riding position but when I did have lessons I found I benefited from my own trial and error a lot more. What I learned most I have got firstly from the horses, secondly from what I felt was right and thirdly what I learned and observed and they have all been correct. Watching, asking a lot of questions etc oh and making mistakes can't learn anything without mistakes. Never be afraid to ask questions. You may feel like people may look down on you because you have to ask instead of knowing. A stereotype I hate about the horse world is if you ask you don't know, it's impossible to know all.
You got it right about moving your hips so keep that idea. Your lower leg should be still and to post properly you should not be using your lower leg to lift yourself out of your saddle. This will tip you forward and make your heels pop up and if the horse hesitates or slows down/speeds up you will fall forward/backwards but its mostly always forward. Your hips should be doing the work not your legs. If you can post with stirrups you should be able to do it without them.

To prove this point to my students once they get the rising trot to show them if they are doing properly I bring a piece of paper and cut it and half and write their names on them then place them under their knees. I then ask them to trot around the arena posting. Students that have an especially hard time with this get 5$ bills instead of pieces of paper. If they can keep them they keep the $$ so it really motivates them. If they keep falling out thats all we work on for the lesson until they get it.

Youtube also has some very helpful videos on people learning to trot.

Click, click, click, it's starting to make sense! When people in here describe something that will happen if I do 'this' or 'that', it is exactly what is happening to me! Like your comment about tipping forward and the horse hesitating or slowing down/speeding up, making me tip forward even more. That's what happened last week! I must be using my lower leg without even noticing. In my first lesson, the instructor was telling me to use my knees to help myself rise in the trot. In a chair position I was able to do that and I felt better. The horse I was on that morning had a lot of 'go', so she didn't hesitate. The big fella I had last week kept stopping and I'd fall forward, as I didn't have that chair seat as much.

So it's okay to squeeze my upper leg, right? It's the inside of my upper thigh that is doing the work, not so much the knee? Just sitting here, I'm trying to do the right movement. If I tighten my butt and "slide" my pelvis slightly forward in a rhythm like I'm trotting, my thighs automatically tighten up. Am I on the right track here? I struggle with the whole 'tightening' the butt muscles thing because of being told or reading about how tightening those muscles will make the horse think you want to go faster, or does that only apply to the legs?

Thanks for your patience with all this!

Oh, I should try putting money under my leg! Hmm...maybe I should put the money for my lessons there. If it falls out, he gets to keep it, but if it stays, I get to keep it. LOL What motivation!

~C~

Hi cyndi
a few years ago I had a horrible ankle injury which made riding very difficult. It was just a few weeks before a dressage championship I'd qualified for. I really wanted the chance to ride in an arena with flowers round and it was a big thing for me to have qualified. I developed a way of riding to protect my ankle which sounds a lot like the problems you are having. I tipped on to my knees everso slightly and overtime I had real problems dropping my right heel. Unfortunately at the competition there was a company making DVDs of the competitors and my husband thought it would be a nice memento. Now I have my bad leg position imortalized. (my pony looks ok, if a bit lazy)
All I wanted to tell you is that I spent a lot of my off-horse time working on my bad ankle as people can tell you to drop your heels or lengthen your leg (my friend who teaches me used to say that every few seconds) but if the muscles can't do it it won't happen. I consciously put the back of my heels down when I walk uphill, along corridors, anywhere. I also put one leg infront of the other and then reach down and put the palms of my hands on the floor and these two things hve made a real difference to my ability to keep my heels down when I ride without concentrating on doing it as the muscles up the back of my lower leg have now stetched back to their original position.

Great exercise suggestions! My instructor also told me to stand on the edge of the stairs and let my heels drop over the stair, then raise myself up again. I've got lots of work to do. Glad it's winter so that I've got less distractions outside, and more time inside to practice.

I'm also thinking about getting one of those huge exercise balls so that I can balance on it and do leg exercises.

Those exercise balls are great! I had a few. One in the barn so I could torment the horses. It's terrible fun to kick it around the arena and let the horses free longe themselves. We also play horse ball with it, you push it with your horse and use jump standards as a goal post.

I'd love to get an Equi-Spirit ball for Fanny. There was an old small stall ball in the field and I started to kick it around. Fanny chased after it like a dog.

I would enjoy being in an environment where there were a bunch of people who could play horse soccer and other games.

Cyndi - check out these exercises:
http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/h_Free_Pilates_Exercises.htm
also the Essentials video here
http://www.videojug.com/tag/pilates

If you can get the idea of sitting tall and 'toned' (not tense) and in neutral alignment then it will help enormously. Some people have naturally good posture and with us - as with horses - sometimes there are 'conformation' issues! Also, we get into bad habits as time goes on, then our bodies start to 'set' in the wrong position and it takes physical effort to sit or stand right. Trying to do this while we are riding involves thought and effort, meanwhile there are lots of other things going on!

Once your upper body is aligned and toned and following the movement, really your legs can take care of themselves... I try to think SOFT from the hips downwards as the legs must be elastic and mobile - any gripping will block the horses movement. The masters say 'cling like a wet cloth'. Think of little springs in the knees and ankles. When posting, allow the horses movement to pop you forward and up rather than making an effort to rise.

I agree with Sydney that you can learn a hell of a lot on your own. Even when you have an instructor who is good enough to correct you in the right way (and not many know enough about anatomy, biomechanics and posture to help... ) the important thing is that you can FEEL when it is right - and you will and as I mentioned, the horse will tell you!

So I'd try:
- Some exercises at home to start retraining your muscles and get into good habits
- Have a look at some reading material - I'll post some below. Sometimes one particular instructors way of explaining things can ring a bell.
- Experiment on your own! If its safe to do so, try shutting your eyes when you ride. Switch off your legs from the hips downwards and feel your four legs walking along instead... it's a revelation.
- Do exercises on horseback - again if it's safe - do some upper body shoulder shrugs, circles, arms circles. Practice finding neutral spine in the saddle. Try 'pedalling' with your legs - lift the knees alternately in time with the walk (or trot if you are brave!) Feel the sit bones sinking deeper while the leg joints remain mobile.

Hope we aren't baffling you with too much information For me riding is a lifetimes work and I'm sure the others would agree... I'm always trying to improve and so are even the most brilliant horsepeople.

http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/ - useful E Book
http://www.mary-wanless.com/pysio.htm Ball exercises
http://www.mary-wanless.com/ Rider analysis and advice

I think this might merit a new thread you know ...

Thanks!

I know my posture needs work. Having low self-esteem all my life has made it hard for me to hold my head up rather than slouching and trying to disappear. I'm slowly making progress, thanks to my wonderful family and certainly Fanny, but posture still has a way to go.

I've seen a couple of those websites before, the Mary Wanless ones in particular. I think you may have suggested them to me one other time. I'll try to read what's on the other sites, but these days I barely have time to come check this forum.

It is a lot of info to take in and can be a bit overwhelming, but I'll "get it" eventually.

I'm really enjoying Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling's book. He's got a few simple exercises in there that look very helpful too. I don't know if I'll get to finish it before it has to go back to the library, so I hope my husband buys it for me for Christmas I still have a Kelly Marks book from the library that I have to browse too. Both the books are on loan from another library, so I can't have them as long as I normally would. I should've timed it better so that I got Kelly's book after I finished Klaus's.

A new thread for exercises? Go for it!!