What type of saddle do you use!

This is a really interesting topic because I recently read an article that indicated that a well fitted treed saddle was as good as a treeless. So what does everyone use?
For me it was down to Trelawny's size and growth - he is a BIG horse, and still growing and a treeless saddle will grow with him and I bought a Barefoot Nevada because I like the western saddles (watched too many westerns as a kid!) Having said that Trelawny is a bit oversized to be a cowpony - but we can pretend!

Yes the active word there (words sorry) are 'well fitting'. If it fits your horse when he's fat it won't fit when he's thin. i know, I just had to dig out a size smaller jeans when a cold spell hit 'cause i've lost weight while in cotton trousis. No treed sddle will fit all the time unless your horse doesn't change shape. You can of course use adjustable ones, I used a Reactorpanel for 12 years ( I had one of the first ones out and still got it) this is the best compromise for a treed saddle that will always adjust to fit. But now I have gone Western, I looked at the one you got but in the end went for the 'real thing' and got a Bob Marshall treeless from the USA, best thing I ever did, the most comfortable saddle in the world.

I have a Barefoot Cheyenne (with the Grandeur Physio pad) with the English stirrups. I am contemplating buying the Western fenders and stirrups for the saddle, as I grew up riding Western. I thought that the English stirrups looked so sophistocated with the saddle...but I think I'll go back to the familiar. Maybe I will have better balance in the Western gear...kind of a psychological thing? Another reason I went with the English stirrups is because my knees get VERY sore with Western saddles. However, that was always the stiff-fendered treed saddles. The Barefoot fenders are supposed to be nice and light and supple and apparently you don't get sore knees from them. My knees get sore because they are forced outward with the stiff fenders, rather than being able to bend more so that my knees are facing forward. That's what you get for being knock-kneed!!!

After using synthetic harness I really liked the idea of being able to hose my tack.
My western is a tex-tan. Theres something about a tex-tan that fits me so well. They are super comfy. The only brand I found that was balanced for me and wide enough for Indigo.

My english I have is a wintec, without CAIR. I will not use cair for several reasons.
1. They are never the same firmness day to day because of the little air pockets the density of the panels can be harder or softer depending on the air pressure and temperature making the saddle fit differently in different seasons and even day to day.
2. I found it bounced a lot more. My mare has a bouncy trot and I felt like it was a bazillion times bouncier.
3. They can pop with very little change in altitude. I guess CAIR had a huge lawsuit when an endurance rider got really hurt when the panels burst.
4. They can pop period. They warn you to watch what you set the saddle on.

I would love to try treeless. No one around here has one for me to try. The woman that certified me to do my massage therapy said they break down a lot quicker than a normal saddle. I have been eyeing a pretty nice looking one on e-bay.

I think as long as you keep the treeless physio pad (like a numnah) up together there is no reason why the treeless saddle shouldnt last. I am chuffed to bits with mine - it is incredibly comfortable and flexible and whilst I bought it as a nubuck I have actually treated it will normal leather conditioner so it has reverted back to proper leather - which I think looks loads better. They probably dont have the shelf life of say a traditional english saddle, which if looked after could last a lifetime in theory, but I wouldn't swap it.
Re the fenders - I have found that using western fenders has stopped me from getting sore calves because I dont wear knee length riding boots - just walking boots. Whenever I ride my friends horse in a traditional engish saddle and stirrups I always have to wear wellies to stop my legs rubbing against the stirrup leathers - the fenders on the Barefoot stop all that.
Re the "well fitted" treed saddle - absolutely and interestingly the article was to do with master saddlers - who presumably make the "well fitted" treed saddles.

What is 'well fitted' anyway?

It doesn't take much thinking about and observing to realise/see how much a horses back changes shape when it is moving so anything that doesn't allow for that range of movement is not going to be comfortable for the horse.

I use both Treed and Treeless.

My treed is a wintec
Non Cair - I agree with Sydney. When I first got Ember she had some difficulty allowing people on her back and even now can explode into her bronco impression if necessary. Once a horse is bucking the cair panels act like trampolines and hitting the deck is a certainty.
However I fit it along Balance principles and fit it wide with lots of squahy padding underneath, usually a polypad and also something like quilted leg wraps under the pommel as well, that way when her back changes shape in movement, the padding will squash rather than constricting the back. She goes very well in it.

The treeless is an Equinelibrium Hackabout. I have the synthetic one which is so comfy.
I used to have the leather one that I loved too but a friend tried it and wanted to buy it so I sold it to her and bought the synthetic one. I use a mattes correction pad underneath. I agree with Jo and good pad is essential with a treeless saddle.

I use either one depending on whatever I am doing. I like the treeless but as it has dressage type girth straps sometimes Ember finds that they make her sore where the girth fastens. I haven't solved how to deal with this yet so she has a rest from it and I use the treed.

I find comfort is everything for both horse and rider, after observing how much a horses ribcage can expand just from breathing I won't use any girth which is not elasticated. And as far as Ember is concerned it has to be elasticated at both ends, fleece lined and padded

Something that irks me that I see a lot of riders around here doing is just getting a saddle and supplementing the lack of fit with more saddle pads.
I agree with the horses back changing and different saddle pads are good there but something so often is over saddle padding.

I think of it this way: if you had a ladies dress shoe that was too small on you, it pinched your feet. You wouldn't put on a pair of wool socks to make it fit better. Same thing should apply with a narrow saddle on a wide horse.
Same thing for a shoe too big. Even though you put on 6 pairs of socks your foot still slops around in the huge shoe. Same thing with a narrow horse and a wide saddle.

I like this topic, keep it going please as I don't have a saddle for Jacko yet and have been looking at all the different types available on different sites but just can't make up my mind as to which one would suit him best.

Its one thing reading the descriptions, etc on the sites but personal experiences are always a good insight too


Sheena

I have a Barefoot Cheyenne for hacking and jumping. I have English leathers with it but after reading Jo's points about the fenders not rubbing I might try those... I now have a set of full chaps which stop that but I do like to ride in short boots. I use a Hillason memory foam, non slip pad underneath. I didn't like the Grandeur pad but thats just personal preference.

I also have the Barefoot London for dressage with a Mattes pad. I found the shims in the Mattes useless so I cut the stiches dividing the inserts and shoved a Wintec riser in there! Now it's great.

I love the increased feel and movement you get with the treeless. I think comfort is vital for both horse and rider, the horse can't be comfy if you are unstable, fidgeting or thrashing and the rider can't be comfy if the horse is stiff, cramped or hollow.

I've also got a gorgeous memory foam and sheepskin seat saver but I don't use it all the time. I've seen that you can get memory foam replacement seats for the Barefoots but they are expensive so I'm going to have a go at making my own

I have just bought my fourth treeless saddle. We have two Torsion Gp saddles, one lined with wool and the other lined with sympantex. We use eqitex pads with both. The Torsion is a very well made and comfy saddle which never moves across all types of steep terrain. It is fine for jumping too. The leather is lovely and both saddles have worn well. They’ve had a lot of use over the last 5- 6 years and look good and haven’t needed any repairs.



When I bought my first treeless saddle, my kids kept arguing about who was going to use it. At that time I couldn’t afford a second torsion so I bought a Trekker Talent. To be honest, I thought I was buying a Barefoot but got a bit mixed up and phoned the wrong company. I don’t think the Trekker is as good quality as the barefoot. It’s quite ugly too but very comfortable. It’s lasted very well though the black dye has worn away. One of my daughters likes this one best. We use a polypad with this one with a foam Balance pad between this and the saddle.



My most recent purchase is a Total saddle Solutions dressage saddle from ebay. It is my favourite as it helps you to sit correctly. Also you can use it for competing (though I have done unaffiliated dressage in my Torsion and no one said anything) as the look more like a normal saddle. They cost a fortune new and I think I would expect a better finish If I’d bought one for the full price. It is a bit unnerving to start with as there isn’t much wither clearance as the saddle flexes with the horse’s back. All my ponies seem to like it though and move freely in it.. It does have a gullet, unlike the Torsions and it came with a chamois lined numnah and various shims, which I haven’t needed as all my ponies are barrel shaped.



I really like this topic as it’s interesting to hear what people think about the different makes of saddles. When I bought my first treeless saddles it wasn’t so easy to research things online and there was no ebay. Before I bought my last saddle I looked at the equinelibrium saddles but wasn’t confident about buying one. Might have considered it if I’d read this first. Also, I’d no idea cair panels could burst.

mazrush wrote:Also, I’d no idea cair panels could burst.

I didn't know that either, not one site I saw saddles with cair panels mentioned it .........

This forum is really becoming a mine of information for me


Sheena

We're currently having a fascinating discussion re. the Total Contact saddle which I'm thinking of getting, in the Yahoo group. http://www.total-contact.co.uk/ Its inspired some strong responses!

I'd love anyone's opinion if they've not yet commented So far I'm pretty enthused by the level of sensitivity I'm told it helps create, that it doesn't slip, doesn't need to be girthed tight (an issue for me and the barrel-shaped (as she should be!) one ) is treeless and that horses love it. The concerns are that it may not distribute stirrup pressure as widely across the back as other saddles, leading to greater damage, quicker, at specific points, in particular muscles.

Tell me what you think

I have treeless saddles.

I have a Sensation Hybrid, 2 Startrekk western saddles, A Dartmoor Treefree and an Exmoor Treefree (both for sale to buy a smaller seat Exmoor) and a western treeless similar to a Bob Marshall (think its a Hilason).

Ive had quite a few treeless saddles (14 I think- maybe more now, I will have to total it up again!) including 2 Ansurs, a Fhoenix, Trekkers, a Startrekk Dressage and Barefoots.

I love my saddles, I like the fact that I can use my favourite saddle on any of my horses (well if it fits I can!), I can use the same saddle on my TB as I can with my cob.

I am not convinced by the total contact, just looks like stirrup bars covered in leather, and looks like it will cause some serious pressure points.

I would love to hear what you all think of this...

I went ahead and purchased used Western fenders for my Barefoot Cheyenne. I rode with them for the first time today. I feel better having a wider area for my foot to be on, but the part where the stirrup attaches to the fender was really irritating my left leg - cutting into it.

Don't laugh, and while giving advice, please be gentle Here's the "issue" I had at riding lessons this morning (besides the irritation to my leg), and some possible explanations: Last week, my mount was a slim Quarter Horse mare, and I was riding in a treed Western saddle. Today, I was on a taller and wider gelding, and was using my treeless saddle. I felt much more secure while trotting and posting last week...but the treeless sure was nicer on my bum today!! This morning, I felt like I was airborne while trotting, and my feet were loose in the stirrups. I mentioned it to my instructor and he suggested we shorten the stirrups. I felt somewhat better after that, as far as loose feet goes, but still felt like I was going to fall off my horse, just from a lack of balance. When I'd go up in the air, I felt like I could fall either way to the side. My horse could sense it, and kept stopping. I could feel myself leaning forward, and he'd stop. I am just finding it really hard to stay seated straight!!! Even when I post I feel like I could slip right off if the horse turned to the side. Is this just a matter of time and practice? I really don't want to give up on my treeless saddle. I don't want to depend on a treed saddle to keep me on the horse, I want to learn how to balance regardless of what saddle I'm using.

I wasted a lot of time waiting for my stirrups to be shortened, and I didn't want to take up all of the instructor's time with my 'problems' (there were five students today), but I think next time I will let him know exactly how I'm feeling up there. I have to work next Saturday, so I'll be missing the lesson, and I fear I'll be even further behind the others. The other people in my class have either taken lessons before, or else have been riding horses for years and are now taking lessons.

Part of the problem might be my body position in the treeless saddle. I'm not in the chair position I was in on the Western saddle. That could be throwing off my balance. I need to work on stretching and strengthening my leg muscles so that I can maintain some contact in my upper thighs while trotting. Plus, I have to open up my pelvis so that I can have a nice long leg in the right position. I was told once that I have a natural chair seat position, so I need to change that.

Am I on the right track with my thinking?

Does your western stirrups/fenders have stirrup hobbles? They are the little straps that keep the actual stirrups from twisting around in an emergency and getting your foot caught. Heres a picture http://www.western-saddle-guide.com/images/stirrup-hobble1.jpg
Anyway, my textan had big bulky ones. I got a pair of nylon english spur straps and put them on and I dont get rubbed any longer. The buckle should also be on the inside towards the horse. If that fails try getting a pair of half chaps. My first saddle was a butt buster and rubbed my legs something terrible. Even though I rode strictly western then they saved my legs until I learned better and got a saddle that fit me.

The bottom of the stirrups should hit your ankle bone when your feet are out of them for any classical riding position, english or western. You may even feel more comfortable with them a tiny bit shorter.
Falling forward is a problem with a lot of beginner riders. It's a combination of slouched shoulders and popping up heels.
This is what I tell every student when they first start.

Whats the first thing an airplane has to have down when it goes to land or else it will crash?


It's wheels. That is why you have to have your heels down or else when you go to stop or post because of the motion you will crash.

Secondly remember this point: The elbow is the single most strongest part of a human body. When you bend your elbow you strengthen that point. Now make two fists and imagine you have an ice cream cone in each hand. If you tip your hands the ice cream falls off the cone so you can't tip your cones. Remembering these three things, heels, elbow and hands/ice cream cones will keep you sitting strait.

Everyone can tell when I am teaching a beginner lesson because I am hollering "don't tip your ice cream!!" from the arena lol.

Also try finding your seat bones. With your horse standing still bring both legs all the way forward towards the horses sholder, then all the way back towards their rump. Then finally let your legs settle beneath you out of your stirrups. You should feel like your sitting real deep and on your seat bones. It's a really secure feeling but once you get the hang of it, it will come naturally to you. This also streaches your hips so older riders really benefit from this.