four point trim

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four point trim

Post by FlorayG on Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:29 am

My professional trimmer ( who comes every few months to check my work) doesn't agree with the 'four point trim' and has some very sound arguments against it. I'd be interested to hear what others do and why with their trims, do you actually have any scientific evidence that what you do is good or do you just 'make it up as you go along' and stick with it because your horse stays sound? I follow KC Lapierres trim, I've studied the DVD's and had lessons from my trimmer, and I hope to attend a four day course next year. As far as I can make out, the trim you use depends mostly on the type of terrain you ride on - here in the UK the four point trim is not suited to the mostly soft ground and roads, although it is to the hard ground and rough tracks of the midwest USA. Maybe...your opinions please.
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Re: four point trim

Post by Sydney on Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:07 am

I've never used it. I have my farrier roll my horses toes to give them better break over. Hes never once hurt one of my horses and can explain every single darn bone in their body or legs.

He is a traditional farrier. He shoes horses but he always tries to convince the owner it's better to leave them barefoot unless they need it for some reason (I have to shoe mine occasionally because their feet wear faster than they grow because I drive on the road). He understands wile they are harmful to a horse they are sometimes a necessary evil.

Here is an article I found. It explains scientifically why a four point trim is harmful to a horses anatomic structure.
http://web.wt.net/~stovall/4-point.htm
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Re: four point trim

Post by bohohorse on Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:25 am

I've not heard of it. I've got an EPAUK trimmer - they originally trained with KC but broke away as they wanted to be independant and therefore free to research and experiment to improve their trade.

Looking at the article Sydney posted it seems to be referring to what some people call the 'wild horse trim' ? Which my EPs don't use for some of the reason the authors refer to - they aren't wild horses!

That's putting it very simply I know. I respect my trimmers opinion as they don't take anything on face value and are constantly seeking evidence for themselves. Interestingly, a lot of them have come from a science, engineering or medical background.

Sydney your farrier sounds very enlightened.
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Re: four point trim

Post by FlorayG on Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:56 am

Thats a big part of the argument - wild horses do exactly what THEY want, and domestic horses have to do what WE want. Also of course a wild horse with poor feet would soon be dead, whereas we put up with all sorts of faults in our darlings. Does anyone here use the 4point trim? Interested to hear the case for it...
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Re: four point trim

Post by Jo on Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:01 pm

I have a traditional farrier too who is more than happy to trim my chap regularly and agrees that barefoot is far far better than shoes - but some horses just dont have good enough feet to go without.
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Re: four point trim

Post by bohohorse on Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:36 pm

Jo, I'm so sorry, I just went to quote your post and edited it instead Surprised I think there was more to your post than that originally...

Clearly I can't be trusted with moderator powers... Soz!
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Re: four point trim

Post by bohohorse on Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:38 pm

the point I was going to make was... great to find another enlightened (and honest) farrier. Mind you, the EP's differ in that they then say 'well get the feet good enough for them to go without!'

My trimmer believes that they can all be sound but won't all necessarily be able to perform at a high level. And the soundness can take work and some owners don't want the trouble.

Getting my coat now.. Very Happy
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Re: four point trim

Post by Admin on Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:42 am

I had forgotten about the four point trim, I haven't heard anything about it for years.

Wasn't it the centre of some controversy and prosecution in the UK or am I thinking of something else? Wink

Interestingly it dredged up another memory from years ago when a girl turned up at our yard declaring she was going to have her horse trimmed with the four point trim and not worm him. affraid affraid .

Yes we did think of her as a bit of a freak Embarassed

No honestly she was........... Laughing

Even if I may have changed my thinking on some points sunny sunny
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Re: four point trim

Post by Cyndi on Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:32 am

My farrier also suggests to people that they allow their horses to go barefoot, unless they do a lot of road riding.

When he trims Fanny's hooves, he uses a method I have never heard of before, yet he says it's been used for years (and truthfully, I don't know much about hoof trimming details). He trims her hooves to match the angle of her face as well as the angle of her shoulder. Any of you heard of that? Her hooves look really good. I should take a pic of them and show them to you.

My farrier also doesn't believe in "natural" or "wild horse" trims, mainly due to the fact that it's more than just a trim in those cases - it's all about where they are kept and what they eat...their entire lifestyle, not just how they are trimmed.
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Re: four point trim

Post by Sydney on Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:18 am

Oooh, we should do that. A new thread for horse hooves.

Do a profile and the underside of each foot.
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Re: four point trim

Post by Jo on Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:49 am

that would be quite interesting - hoof health! My chap has really excellent feet but suffers a bit with thrush - now apparently heavies are prone - but I just didnt get it when I picked out his feet twice a day, and he was on seriously deep bedding when he is stabled during the winter nights so no dirty mucky straw to stand in - the farrier was puzzled too. We came to the conclusion that the ground he was on in his old home was contaminated in some way because my management of his feet was without fault. Trelawny is now elsewhere and has been there for nearly a year - on steep ground with acres and acres to roam across, so increased activity and drier ground, and apart from one stubborn pocket in a rear frog that is taking longer to heal (and is improving every day) his feet are in tiptop condition. My farrier said he hadn't seen such good feet in a Shire. Its taken a year - and good ground - and I still pick his feet out twice a day but we are winning.

Back to the 4 point trim my farrier did talk to me about it - he was saying that some farriers were looking into it - but I dont think he was entirely convinced. He does an excellent job with Trelawny's trim and balance, and I rasp off the nicks that sometimes occur in between visits.


Last edited by winterweave (Jo) on Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : bad english!)
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Re: four point trim

Post by Admin on Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:19 pm

Sydney wrote:Oooh, we should do that. A new thread for horse hooves.

Do a profile and the underside of each foot.

Neat idea
I can create a hoof gallery for pics, Also I think they can be linked to directly show in posts.
Watch this space.
I sometimes take pictures of Embers feet and text them to my trimmer if I have any queries about cracks etc.
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Re: four point trim

Post by Cyndi on Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:15 pm

I just uploaded three pics of Fanny's hooves - they're in my photo album. I did it with my cell phone when I was at the barn this morning. I'll try to remember to take the camera with me the next time hubby comes with me, so I can get some better pics.
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Re: four point trim

Post by FlorayG on Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:25 pm

From the front and side they look a nice shape, Cyndi, but from underneath they look ...er...weird. What's that big silver bit in the middle? Is it a reflection from your camera? Perhaps we'll wait for better photos. Although I do notice the clefts of the frog look very different sizes - or is that also the fault of the picture?
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Re: four point trim

Post by Cyndi on Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:46 pm

That's the sun shining down the middle. I had to look twice when I first saw it Smile The clefts aren't totally even...but then maybe I just didn't clean them out well enough.

I'll take more pics when I can.
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Re: four point trim

Post by Sydney on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:58 pm

I posted Indigos in the album. Shes outside 24/7 on cement and a rocky paddock.
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