Changing the rules in Canada

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sydney on Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:53 am

I have taken it upon myself to challenge the rules of equine Canada.
I've e-mailed each of the sections and so far I have only received a reply from driving as seen below:

Speaking on behalf of Driving, Sections C and H rules -
bitless bridles offer insufficient control for a horse pushing a
carriage. While there may be some exceptional horses, the rules are written
for the general public and there are issues of safety and control involved.
Driving is not only has classes in an arena, but cross-country as well
commanding up to four horses in a turnout, often is confined areas of public
gatherings.
There are no other countries involved in
driving that permit bitless bridles. Our Rules are based on the FEI and agree on
this point with the USEF and ADS driving Rulebooks as well.

This is what I e-mailed back to them:
I have trained many horses and my own bitless to drive. Some of them
were bitted for years and others were two year olds. We have
standardbreds racing in bitless that needed their tongues tied and were
bleeders in a bit that now only need an overcheck. I compete in
pleasure driving and 100% have more control with my bitless bridle than
with my bitted. I have yet to see a horse that does not perform well in
a bitless bridle. I am not talking bosals, hackamores or sidepulls.
We did a clinic march this year and had several driving horses in it
and every single one went better bitless than they did in their regular
driving bit and are still bitless today minus competition because of
what rules dictate to us. That means they are driving down the road
through traffic and even our insurance companies recognize we are
bitless. I think driving down the road with motor vehicles is more
dangerous and trying of a horse than going into a ring and running
around in circles. If a horse is scared enough no bit or piece of
equipment will stop him or her. Bits are NOT the answer. They were
invented by atilla the hun and in that time were meant to inflict pain
on a horse to control it quickly in battle. With the various methods of
training out there I believe most would agree with me that it is the
way you train your horse not the equipment you use.

Bits are harmful to the horse. There are over fourty recognized
diseases caused or worsened by the use of a bit in a horses mouth. A
bit presses on nerves that are part of the trigeminal nerve branch.
This nerve branch runs from just behind the ears and supplies
sensations to the whole head including the lips, hard and soft palate
of the mouth. If a bit is jointed it can press on the hard palate (roof
of the mouth), bars and tongue. Especially if a bit (and mechanical
hackamore) have a curb chain they are especially painful. For instance
if you pull with five pounds of pressure on the reins and activate that
curb chain it presses on a nerve just behind the chin. This nerve is
part of the trigeminal nerve branch and it's called the mental nerve.
The mental nerve is very close to the surface of the skin with no fat
or muscle to pad it. That five pounds you pull by can become amplifed
by ten to twenry times depenging on type of mouthpiece, how tight the
chain is and type of chain or strap.

So I would like you to re-consider. Any more information you need on
bits or bitless bridles I can present to you along with a signed
petition if nessesary from all the people who ride and drive bitless.

Thank you for your time.

Vaulting. I think he though I was talking about a longeing cavesson. MANY vaulters use a bitted bridle and side reins.


The vaulting rules at the pre-national championship level
are all provincial. Our provincial rules do allow for a longeing cavesson and
many longeurs make use of them.






Our national rules are simply a copy of the FEI rules. It
is important that our elite athletes at this level demonstrate the same skills that
they will be required to show at the CVIs and at the world championships.

What do you guys think?

Zoe and I were talking on the weekend when we were at the royal and we are going to start a petition to allow bitless horses to compete with the bitted. I think we are going to need this petition with many, many names on it to get the point through their traditionalist skulls.

I'll post what the rest of them say as they reply to me.
avatar
Sydney

Posts : 292
Join date : 2008-08-10
Age : 29
Location : Harrow Ontario Canada

http://www.nurturalhorse.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by bohohorse on Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:08 am

Good for you Sydney Very Happy

bitless bridles offer insufficient control for a horse pushing a
carriage

This is open to challenge. What evidence do they have that this is the case? Physical, anatomical, psychological? I'm tired of hearing these throwaway phrases. (anyway I thought horses PULLED carriages or is that just my ignorance Razz )

Our Rules are based on the FEI and agree on
this point with the USEF and ADS driving Rulebooks as well.

Our national rules are simply a copy of the FEI rules. It
is important that our elite athletes at this level demonstrate the same skills that
they will be required to show at the CVIs and at the world championships

The FEI have stated that they won't change their rules unless individual countries change their own rules. Individual countries wait for a lead from the FEI. So we are stuck in a circular stalemate.

Also what do they mean about skills? Does bitless riding require less skill than bitted? But gives less control? Doesn't make sense.

I tried to reply to this earlier and lost the response (how annoying!) Since then you've added your response to them - very good. Hope they stick that in their pipe and smoke it Twisted Evil

A petition would be a great idea. Between us and people on the group we could have one each for USA, Canada and the UK (at least).

I do feel that the most important thing is to present the case for allowing bitless bridles. This may include presenting evidence that BBs are kinder that bits BUT the main aim is not to slate bits. After all we aren't asking for bits to be banned (well not yet... Wink ). But most of the people that we are petitioning will be riding bitted themselves and telling people that they are effectively being cruel might not leave them so well disposed towards us! I too feel strongly about the effects of bits but I can suck it up for a bit for the greater good Cool
avatar
bohohorse

Posts : 139
Join date : 2008-08-08
Location : UK

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/BohoHorse

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sydney on Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:11 am

The FEI have stated that they won't change their rules unless
individual countries change their own rules. Individual countries wait
for a lead from the FEI. So we are stuck in a circular stalemate.

THANK YOU! I had no idea about that.

In a horses view weather he has a collar or breast collar on he is pushing the carriage, not pulling it.

Here is what I replied to the vaulting rule manager with. I think they will be the most approachable.

Thank you. I'm not talking about a longeing cavesson but rather a
bitless bridle such as a sidepull or cross under bitless bridle or
other of the same nature to be allowed when horses have side reins on.

Just because a horse does not have a bit in his mouth doesn't mean he
will display less skill. There are riders and drivers from all over the
world displaying more skill and fluidity with a bitless bridle than
bitted. We ask that if we wish, we can compete with the bitted horses.

The FEI has stated they will not change their rules unless individual
countries change theirs. I hope we can make a step toward this
revolution in horsemanship.

Any other information you are curious or would like to know about bits
or bitless bridles feel free to ask. I would love to answer any
questions you may have.

Thank you.

And the reply, which he basically said because I don't compete in vaulting that I don't qualify for a rule change. That really ticked me off.

but since Vaulting is only performed on the longe line, I
fail to see why a bitless bridle would be more beneficial than a
cavesson for those interested in not using a bit. Are you are not
familiar with what Vaulting is? Please visit www.VaultCanada.org for pictures and an introduction.

If a vaulting club competing at Canadian competitions wishes to use a
bitless bridle instead of a cavesson or bitted bridle, they would be
more than welcome to submit a rule change request and it would be
carefully considered.

The benefits, oh theres many but how can you explain them to a sportsman. It's useless.

And I replied

I am very aware of what vaulting is. I watch competitions several times
of the year but do not have time to get personally involved because of
other equine activities. I do not speak just for myself but bitless
horses and riders across Canada and several other countries that wish
to see a change.

We are trying to change the rules so if one wishes in any discipline that they can compete against the bitted horses.
There
are over forty recognized diseases caused and worsened by the use of
the bit in a horses mouth. Scientific evidence is being gathered every
day on the benefits of a bitless horse. However there is no scientific
credited evidence that bits are good for a horse. Those of us that have
researched and learned about the horses anatomy have found we can work
better bitless are looking for a place to do more with our horses other
than practice at home. We need that option to compete and wish to do so
against the bitted horses.

I appreciate the fact that they can use a longeing cavesson but for those horses that do not we want an option other than a bit.

Thank you.

We do have support from the vaulting rules for other changes but I think he misunderstood. My aim was not to replace any bridles/bits/equipment but to allow bitless to compete alongside them. @_@ sheesh.

I support your quest to use bitless bridles in other disciplines, but
not in place of a cavisson in vaulting. If a vaulting club that is
competing submits a rule change request we will consider it.

Finally he said

There are no vaulting rules or competitions in Ontario, so there is no
rule to change there. The only provinces that have rules and
competitions are BC and Alberta. It is normal for any sport body in any
country to only accept rule changes from their members. Yes, you could
get a petition signed by many members, however all you need is one
member who is a coach, longer, or a club representative to submit the
rule change request. If so, it would be voted upon at the next annual
general meeting.

I know just the coach >:3
avatar
Sydney

Posts : 292
Join date : 2008-08-10
Age : 29
Location : Harrow Ontario Canada

http://www.nurturalhorse.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sydney on Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:43 pm

I hate to double post but...

WOOO HOOO!!! The driving rule person who I thought was going to be super hard to convince sent me back this e-mail today

Thank you Sydney.
We have our AGM this coming Saturday and your request will
be discussed.


We need someone in the US and UK working on these changes too! I would be more than happy to provide scientific data on bits and bitless as I have in my case here.

I still can't believe it. Driving of all sports always seems to be stuck back 20 years from the rest of the equestrian world in my personal experience. To allow bitless in competition would be AMAZING!! I could finally use Indigo as my show horse!


Last edited by Sydney on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Sydney

Posts : 292
Join date : 2008-08-10
Age : 29
Location : Harrow Ontario Canada

http://www.nurturalhorse.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by lightertouch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:16 am

WOOHOO! Well done Sydney! Of course you'll let us know if they agree, so we can tell all the other disciplines that vaulting allows bitless!!!
avatar
lightertouch

Posts : 249
Join date : 2008-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sydney on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:19 am

you'll all be the first to know. I am very excited about this.

Vaulting allows the use of a longe cavesson but big competitions all use bits and side reins.
avatar
Sydney

Posts : 292
Join date : 2008-08-10
Age : 29
Location : Harrow Ontario Canada

http://www.nurturalhorse.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by lightertouch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:58 am

I was wondering, has it been pointed out to the FEI that some of their subsidiaries are allowing bitless competitors? For example, BHS Trec allowed me to do so (though that was only a local show, but can they change it for national level??? Surely not?), and I understand that BSJA Showjumping allows us to compete... Perhaps they'll just come back saying 'but nobody's actually applied for rule changes...' Is it really as simple as getting a judge to request a rule change?

Anyone know any judges?!
avatar
lightertouch

Posts : 249
Join date : 2008-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sydney on Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:55 am

Oh boy do I! Very Happy
Next time I see my good friend helen I'll ask her. Her and her daughter have driving horses, race horses (arabs and standardbreds) they jump and hunt. I compete against her and she was a judge this summer at one of my shows. I am sure she would do me the favor.
avatar
Sydney

Posts : 292
Join date : 2008-08-10
Age : 29
Location : Harrow Ontario Canada

http://www.nurturalhorse.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by bohohorse on Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:58 am

For British Eventing you can do the cross country and showjumping bitless. Also British Show Jumping Association jumping you can do bitless. Most unaffiliated shows take their rules from BE and BSJA so basically, jumping and cross country isn't a problem.

So in the UK the only sticking point is dressage. Why they don't permit it I don't know, if you are allowed to gallop across country bitless then SURELY it can't be for reasons of control... Question Especially when you are allowed to compete dressage bitless if you go hors concours

I can only assume that they think a bitless horse cannot be judged against the dressage requirements. I have even known judges say that, which is a shocking indictment of their level of knowledge Evil or Very Mad
avatar
bohohorse

Posts : 139
Join date : 2008-08-08
Location : UK

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/BohoHorse

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by FlorayG on Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:34 am

Dressage people say you can't get the level of 'control' and 'submission' required if you are bitless. My answer would be, isn't that my problem if I pay my entry fee and want to compete against bitted horses? They don't want us upsetting their preconceptions is the problem. Also Sydney try the opposite approach - get onto the endurance societies and ask them, why do they allow incredibly fit horses to compete bitless across wild country? Why do some Western classes INSIST on young (and 'unpredictable'?) horses competing bitless? maybe they can help your arguments.
avatar
FlorayG

Posts : 296
Join date : 2008-08-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sydney on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:28 am

Yeah. The only problem is I don't think Ontario has an endurance bit in the equine canada rules. The western rule person hasn't even looked at my request yet. I'm going to be persistent though.
avatar
Sydney

Posts : 292
Join date : 2008-08-10
Age : 29
Location : Harrow Ontario Canada

http://www.nurturalhorse.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by bohohorse on Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:08 pm

FlorayG wrote: My answer would be, isn't that my problem if I pay my entry fee and want to compete against bitted horses?

Yeah, I think so too - what do they think we are going to do, cry if we don't get placed? Rolling Eyes

I think you're right about preconceptions too - maybe they know that if a horse who is genuinely in self carriage competes it will show up all the ones who are just having their front ends held up Laughing Then people would have to stay at home and actually work on their seat and learning how to school their horses and the entry money would dry up wouldn't it... Twisted Evil

Go on Sydney, rattle them cages Laughing
avatar
bohohorse

Posts : 139
Join date : 2008-08-08
Location : UK

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/BohoHorse

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sydney on Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:27 pm

I just e-mailed endurance Ontario and Canada. Lets see what they say about why they allow bitless bridles.
avatar
Sydney

Posts : 292
Join date : 2008-08-10
Age : 29
Location : Harrow Ontario Canada

http://www.nurturalhorse.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by HorseHippie on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:49 am

Sydney, how is this going for you? Do you have any updates? Myself, I don't have any plans for showing to begin with and now that I ride bitless, my options have really become limited if I did decide to enter the show ring. I think that bitless should be allowed. As for a coach to submit a rule change, does it have to be an Equine Canada coach?

From what I read so far, I am thinking I would have to talk to the Sask Horse Federation (SHF) to kinda back me up to go head to head with Equine Canada. But, I can tell you right now, the SHF would tell me that they follow Equine Canada rules and it would be a back and forth conflict.

I am a member of our local riding club. I am wondering if I bring it up at our next meeting that the club submit a proposal to the SHF, if it would have more "umpf" than just little ole me. Opinions?
avatar
HorseHippie

Posts : 247
Join date : 2009-02-19
Location : Saskatchewan, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by lightertouch on Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:35 am

Yep if they're willing to do it, you might be right. Not that I'd know anything about the Canadian equestrian hierarchy!
avatar
lightertouch

Posts : 249
Join date : 2008-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Changing the rules in Canada

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum