Starting Jacko

Sydney wrote:Rain! We need some! It hasn't rained in like three weeks, maybe more here I lost count. The ground is so hard and dry and dusty

I'm sure no members from this side of the world would object to you coming and taking our rain for a few weeks

We'd probably even chip in for your airfare

I can't speak much on training, as I am just starting out with my first horse, but I will say that someone whose training method "clicked" with me is Ed Dabney. He's in the US. To me, he is a cross between Monty Roberts (no carrot stick for the most part, and kind of uses the Join-Up method) and Pat Parelli (uses much the same types of "games", but they have a different name), and all those other trainers out there, but he's not as "showy" as some. He's a pretty basic, humble guy, and maybe that's what I like about him. He's got a few DVDs on training. I have one right now, but I'd like to get more.

I am a huge fan of Monty Roberts (sigh, except that he too uses bits) and have his "Join-Up" DVD (part of a lovely gift set that my husband bought me for Christmas one year), and I'd like to see some of his other DVDs. I'm also curious about Kelly Marks, since she trained under Monty for a while, but has come up with some wonderful books and videos on training.

I have a beta Nurtural bridle. I don't do a lot of riding yet, but hope to in the future (after I take some much-needed riding lessons to help me with my awful balance...or lack of!!). For now, I am concentrating on building a relationship with her and doing ground work. Actually, I think Fanny would make a great driving horse too. Hmm...will have to check into trainers around here for that someday. Which makes me wonder...is there any advantage to training a horse to drive before saddle training? Fanny is technically saddle trained, but she needs mileage. I'm wondering if driving her would allow her to learn cues, etc., without having to fall off her I know that doesn't help with learning leg and seat cues, but I'm thinking about light rein cues.

Cyndi

Of course theres a BIIIIG advantage. I have the experience of a few horses that drove but never rode that I backed.
They already know cues (clicking/kissing) they are used to straps hitting their sides/legs so the saddle doesn't phase them and they are used to you working around them so it's not a huge transition.

The thing I always loved about carriage horses before I was bitless is that they never fought the bit wile you were on their back for the first time. They already knew what steering and breaks were about.

Even if I don't put a cart on a horse EVERY horse learns how to line drive. You can get them over barn sour issues before you even get on their backs. None of my horses have problems being alone away from the farm because they were all line driven.


Get a helper one day. Put your saddle on her run the stirrups down, tie them with some baling twine together under her belly, get two longe lines, put her normal bridle on her (all my horses learn to see whats behind them so no blinders until about the 10th drive in the actual carriage) run the lunges through the stirrups and to the bridle rings. I would invest in a driving whip. They are inexpensive and less bulky than a lunge whip. Have the helper walk with a lead line on the horse SLACK. The lead person is just there for support if the horse tries to skitter off. You want the lead slack because you are going to be the one telling the horse where to steer, when to stop etc. When you line drive stand just to the side of the horse and tap them gently behind the saddle if the horse doesn't move off a verbal cue or even better if you have a surcingle use it and tap the horse just behind the surcingle. I hope it helps, line driving is a great way to get confidence in you and your horse up.
Once your horse is good remove the leader and get him/her to walk with you until you can do it independantly.
it's fun

Jacko is doing excellent with being long-lined and really seems to like it, he went straight through a flood yesterday without thinking about it much to the trainer's 'disgust'

I haven't had a go at doing it myself yet but I've just ordered a pair of lines so with a bit of luck they will arrive this week and then I'll be able to 'mess' with him myself when no one else is around who may have different ideas on my more 'natural' methods/ideas

I've just taken a chance and hung some washing up on the line so I'm going to bring him over in a while for some desensatisation to things blowing and/or clanking in the wind


Sheena

Cyndi, Kelly Marks is GREAT. She runs Monty's courses over here and I've done several. She's done teaching qualifications as well as all the horse stuff, so she really knows how to get it all to sink in!

I met American Pie at the last demo I went to, he's just unfazeable! (Kelly's niece won Rider of the Year on him at HOYS a few years ago) He's her 'problem pony' turned superstar and he canters into the round pen in the middle of the arena, past mock flaming torches (fabric, uplit and blown by fans) and stuffs his head into the headcollar she's holding up its brilliant!

I too love Monty. Yes he does use bits but of course he never needs to touch them *sigh*. At the last demo he stayed on his quarterhorse stallion's back while they changed the bridles over! I think one of them was a bosal, so he does bitless too!

Is that supposed to be special? Staying on a horse while the bridle is changed? I thought everyone did that...

Oops pressed the send button by mistake... I meant to add, It's just a trust issue and if Monty doesn't have his horses trust then who does? I've done that trick, you should try it - that is, change your horses bridle while you are sitting on him. Amazes the spectators and really, it's easy if your horse is easy to bridle anyway (and they all are of course, because they are bitless!!!! Ta Daaaaaa!!!!)

That's quite impressive to me at the moment. My 5y.o. is quite sharp and sensitive and I also don't have a school or appropriately surfaced enclosed space to try that in, so someone doing it in an arena in front of thousands of people about 3 times I found inspiring. Obviously my goals are quite simple ones compared to others and it doesn't take much to impress me! The stallion doesn't belong to him it was trained by one of his students and borrowed for the demo.

Sorry I'm just gonna go read Nettiquet again I definitely didn't leave an appropriate amount of time before responding. Apologies to all, especially FlorayG.

I'd like to be able to do that with Fanny, change the bridle while I'm on her, I mean.

I spent a couple of hours at the barn this morning. Fanny was so good!!! I took her into the arena and long-lined her. She stood there so nicely to be bridled. When I go to halter her in the field, she will sometimes turn her head away when I put my arm over her neck to grab the rope halter under her jaw. I have to work on that part. Once I have her nose in the halter, she turns her head toward me and waits for me to tie it up. Still some work to do, but she's getting there. Most of the good stuff is what she learned from the breeder, so I just need to keep at it and slowly improve what I'd like to see improved.

I even cleaned her hooves today, with the rope just hanging there!!! Usually she gets bored and wants to walk away. I've never let the rope hang loose (that called ground tying, right?), but thought I'd give it a try today. She didn't budge!!! Again, to all of you it's probably not a big deal, but to me it is leaps and bounds of progress! She's not a bad horse, I just need to gain her trust and have her want to be with me. I'm hopeful that it's coming along.

It's good to know that Kelly Marks comes so highly recommended!! Wish I could see her. I have thought about getting her books, but I learn way better by watching videos. She's got a number of great books though.

You should try putting the lead rope around the horses neck first. My pony used to do that. I trained him from scratch. He barely knew how to lead, was and still is to an extent head shy so every time I caught him, even if he already had his halter on and I was just clipping the lead I would put it around his neck and hold it with one hand. A lot easier than getting your arm yanked off when they go to run or shy from your hand as you do up the halter.

I do put the rope over/around her neck, but perhaps I need to hold the rope in my left hand to hold her head in place while I put my right arm over her neck. What I've been doing is just applying a bit of pressure to the rope and then releasing when she turns her head to me...then she turns her head again, so I have to take the rope again and bring her back to me, etc... I'll try your suggestion and see what she does.

Thanks for the suggestion

No problem. Another thing I taught my pony is when I touch his barrel, right where the girth would go he turns his head into me. I start touching really lightly and increase the pressure I press by every four seconds. When he tips his head in even slightly I release and pat. It makes haltering, bridling, handling etc a breeze. All I have to do now is point at that spot and he turns his head in.

Speaking of pony, I hate to brag but he's seriously the best pony ever!
I just put the cart on him a week ago and we went out for a long drive today, I just got back into the house. There were lots of things even my old mare would spook that that he didn't even look at. When I ask for a trot he just picks it up and goes along until I say stop. I wish he was horse sized so I could ride him instead of all the kids
He just does what I ask, EVERY TIME! Gotta love him.

ok no more thread de-railment lol!

Just a note on the Dually halter. I have Monty Roberts' video, "Join-Up", and at the end of it he has a little blurb about the Dually halter. I'm assuming that's the one that is being discussed in here. I seem to recall on that video that Monty recommends that you never leave the Dually on your horse in the field. It is to be used for training only. There is even a warning on the halter that says not to leave a horse unattended in it. Is that still the case (my DVD is a few years old), or have things changed with it?

FWIW, I have the beta Nurtural Bridle and am happy with it...despite not doing much riding yet. Ah...patience...

Cyndi - who would also like to see some rain because the run-in and surrounding area is a dust bowl when I start cleaning!!

Hi Cyndi
I'd personally not leave anything on a horses head in the field, with the possible exception of a velcro fitted fly fringe. I just think, why risk it?

I imagine that the Dually warning is because it has the moveable part; if they managed to catch it on something in the right way it could pull tight. Unlikely perhaps. but any manufacturor has to worry about product liability so they will always err on the side of caution with their advice.

Sounds like you guys are doing really well